[FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints, tokenism, and art

[Sasa Music 2]

Hi

the Buena Vista brand developed partly deliberately, partly by default. For
many years now there have been rogue acts going round claiming or implying
that they are part of Buena Vista when there is no connection whatsoever.
'Live from Buena Vista ' etc. It has often led to confusion and
disappointment for the public, and most pertinently to a court case in
Europe, won by World Circuit Records, which led to their imposing the use of
the trademark (though these rogues still persist and do quite good
business). The use of the trademark was to concur with the judge's ruling,
and also to attempt to guarantee the quality of what in the process became a
brand. For CD releases and tours. (The other reason was that BVSC as
featured on the original album was never a touring option and we didn't wish
to suggest that Cooder and all of them would be appearing, because it never
was going to happen, so the CDs and tours did need to be qualified by a
second line mentioning which artist it was - Ibrahim Ferrer, Omara Portuondo
etc)

The tacit agreement is that original members of Buena Vista, such as above,
may use the 'BVSC presents.. ' intro . So Eliades Ochoa, though he does his
own tours, can use it too. We try and impose size restrictions on promoters
so it isn't billed with a huge BVSC followed by tiny artist names. This is
hard to achieve as all promoters just want to use the brand, naturally, so
it does become complicated and pernickity. And rather boring to deal with
time after time.. But in the end worth it, as we still have a good touring
show playing to full houses everywhere, but to audiences who simply would
not turn up if the artists names (Guajiro Mirabal, Cachaito Lopez, BArbarito
Torres etc) weren't prefaced by the BVSC line

Despite all this I wouldn't mind having to live with such problems with
other artists. BVSC became a brand for all the reasons people have
suggested, but in the end I don't see how you can set out to repeat it. You
just have to work in the best ways possible, on all fronts, and hope another
glorious fluke occurs.

DAvid @ SASA MUSIC. European agents for BVSC


> The Buena Vista brand has been a huge success, no question. and
> others with no relation to it have capitalized on its coattails as
> well, certainly. That's a good thing, even if it meant saturating the
> market with inferior product in some cases. But it also did a
> disservice to some worthy artists by them being pawned off as B-level
> Buena Vistas rather than promoted for their own merits.
> 
> 
> On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Imbizo at aol.com wrote:
> 
>> an outsized success like BVSC is unlikely to be repeated - not
>> really my point - but its certainly been attempted by the label to
>> use the BVSC Presents name to sell more and other Cuban records -
>> which is my point.  and sell them with much success.   i cant vouch
>> for World Circuit and Nonesuch's thinking but i'd hazard that they
>> see plenty of value in the formula- they wouldn't have done it
>> otherwise. I'd also hazard that they wouldnt presume to do the same
>> numbers as BVSC but that even a fraction of BVSC numbers would
>> suffice.  Further, I'd guess that many if not most consumers bought
>> these other records because of the BVSC connection. and a whole
>> chain of formulas played their part in this ancillary success -
>> retail recognizing the viability of the BVSC brand, the label
>> duplicating marketing, promotion & advertising strategies etc
>> 
>> 
>> I'm not so much concerned about the labeling as the belief that
>> something actually can repeat the success of a Buena Vista or
>> whatever. Buena Vista was a unique project, successful for reasons
>> distinct to itself (including timing) and trying to duplicate that
>> seems to me doomed to failure. You can't simply put together a bunch
>> of artists from wherever, label them the "Buena Vista Social Club of
>> Mongolia" or whatever and expect it to have the same level of
>> success. Just ask all those folks who were marketed as "the next
>> Dylan"... for every Bruce Springsteen there are hundreds of Elliot
>> Murphys.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 16, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Imbizo at aol.com wrote:
>> 
>>> "The problem is when the mentality for promoting projects takes a
>>> "the next Buena Vista Social Club"
>>> approach..."  er, I dont see where the problem is in this - I'm in
>>> the business of selling artists and their music - if labeling
>>> something 'the next X' works, i'll do it until it doesn't work.
>>> Some will outgrow that label and forge their own identities, some
>>> wont.  Market mechanics.   I find this refusal to engage in and /
>>> or disdain for established marketing techniques in 'world music'
>>> perplexing - its as if 'we' are too good for this kind of thinking.
>>> 
>>> There are plenty of formulas going around...a record company
>>> marketing plan, World Circuit trademarking the BVSC name, Six
>>> Degrees' packaging, Concord and Starbucks, Starbucks racking,
>>> virtually every press and promo campaign I engage requires NPR
>>> attention for some if not all of its success, and certainly touring
>>> is the sine qua non of success.  More than ever, in fact.  The
>>> touring circuit, is after all, a formula too.
>>> 
>>> We need more formulas, not less.
>>> 
>>> Mel Puljic
>>> 
>>> The successes, however they happen, are good news. Period. Whether
>>> from PBS, whether from Paul Simon's large spotlight, whatever.
>> And in
>>> theory, there is enough carry-over from any such thing to sustain
>> and
>>> build some more interest. The problem is when the mentality for
>>> promoting projects takes a "the next Buena Vista Social Club"
>>> approach, since for the most part those kind of large successes are
>>> not repeatable, but are the result of many factors converging,
>>> including sometimes just simple right-thing/right-time fortune -- a
>>> harmonic convergence or perfect wave kind of phenomenon.
>>> 
>>> In other words, there is no formula that can be recreated. Each
>>> project demands its own approach, or so it seems to this armchair
>>> quarterback.
>>> 
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Check out my column:
>>> http://www.spinner.com/category/around-the-world/
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:01 AM, Todd Walker wrote:
>>> 
>>>> pardon.
>>>> 
>>>> you know how clearly I present myself....right?
>>>> 
>>>> that's what I am asking.  I think there are different formulas for
>>>> everyone,
>>>> would love to know how it has worked for others.  It always starts
>>>> with the
>>>> solid team - agent, manager, publicist, label all working together
>>>> cohesively.
>>>> 
>>>> RyG was all about radio to start then TV then festivals, small
>>>> clubs to
>>>> large and so on.  What was REALLY unique about their whole rise to
>>>> fame was
>>>> this placement they got on you tube.  One of their songs sat on
>>>> their home
>>>> page for about 2 days and they got hundreds of thousands of
>>> hits.  The
>>>> surprising thing for this band was why did radio pick up on it so
>>>> hard?
>>>> 
>>>> What was the story on Gotan?  Vieux seems to be rocking right now.
>>>> Where
>>>> did Baobab go?  Bembeya Jazz?
>>>> 
>>>> Lots of great music to chose from for all you presenters, the
>> better
>>>> question is how to keep the career moving forward.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Todd Walker
>>>> International Music Network
>>>> 278 Main Street - Gloucester, MA 01930
>>>> 978.283.2883 // 978.283.2330 fax
>>>> www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com>
>>>> 
>>>> Check out www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com/>  for info on
>>>> all our
>>>> artists, tour updates, news, tech riders, image downloads and
>> more.
>>>> 
>>>> ********************************************
>>>> 
>>>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of
>>> the
>>>> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and
>>>> confidential.
>>>> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an
>>>> authorized
>>>> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>>>> that any
>>>> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
>>>> have
>>>> received this communication in error, notify the sender
>>> immediately by
>>>> return email and delete the message and any attachments from your
>>>> system.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org
>>>> [mailto:fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org]On
>>> Behalf Of
>>>> Dmitri Vietze
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:28 AM
>>>> To: fa-worldmusic at folk.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
>>>> tokenism,and art
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Uhhh, Todd... you forgot to tell us the formula? So BVSC is due to
>>>> PBS, and
>>>> Ceu and Angelique thanks to Starbucks. What about R&G?
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Todd Walker" <todd at imnworld.com>
>>>> To: "Dmitri Vietze" <music at rockpaperscissors.biz>; <fa-
>>>> worldmusic at folk.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:00 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
>>>> tokenism,and art
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ah yes - just the sort of this we shoudl be getting into.
>>>>> 
>>>>> First off, I like the term "world music" and much as I like the
>>> terms
>>>>> "Rock", "folk" "electronic" "metal" and the rest of it.  I will
>>>>> refrain
>>>>> from
>>>>> citing the infinite specific examples, but really who cares?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, do remember how uneducated we are as Americans - "world
>>> music"
>>>>> offers
>>>>> a bit of clarity for most.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I want to start hearing some thoughts like homeboy (or girl)
>> below.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How do we cross WORLD MUSIC into the main stream?  I have had
>> a few
>>>>> successes but really isolated and many can't seem to put a finger
>>>>> on it.
>>>>> Rodrigo y Gabriela is the best example, whom many of you may
>>> know the
>>>>> recently ran for the CAA border to become movie stars.
>>>>> Regardless, you
>>>>> have
>>>>> a Mexican guitar duo who basically folded directly into a
>>>>> mainstream plan.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Why did AAA radio get so crazy on it, why did comm. radio go
>> nuts,
>>>>> TV came
>>>>> along and all of a sudden you have a MEXICAN guitar duo who will
>>>>> probably
>>>>> sell over 250K records on their first release.  INSANE!  I
>>> personally
>>>>> think
>>>>> they are an incredible show, but more importantly this experience
>>>>> reinforced
>>>>> my faith that music from across the world can cross over into the
>>>>> mainstream
>>>>> and contend with commercial rock bands.
>>>>> 
>>>>> CeU and Angelique are crushing it right now thanks to Starbucks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Buena Vista thanks to PBS.
>>>>> 
>>>>> There are many more examples, but this is an essential focus for
>>>>> us.  Of
>>>>> course I want all you ethnomusicology nerds (myself included
>>> without
>>>>> degree)
>>>>> to know about these artists, but above and beyond I want to
>>> bring my
>>>>> artists
>>>>> from the corners of the earth into the living rooms of people
>>>>> outside of
>>>>> the
>>>>> major markets.  Not only is there brilliant music being made, but
>>>>> culturally
>>>>> this education is imperative.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What are your successes?
>>>>> 
>>>>> The ideas that flow, the closer we get to a system when tours/
>>> records
>>>>> don't
>>>>> happen once.  We can start building a foundation and structure to
>>>>> make
>>>>> some
>>>>> noise in this country.
>>>>> 
>>>>> violins (fade in)...cello....and now the woodwinds
>>>>> 
>>>>> with respect.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Todd Walker
>>>>> International Music Network
>>>>> 278 Main Street - Gloucester, MA 01930
>>>>> 978.283.2883 // 978.283.2330 fax
>>>>> www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Check out www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com/>  for
>> info on
>>>>> all our
>>>>> artists, tour updates, news, tech riders, image downloads and
>> more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ********************************************
>>>>> 
>>>>> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use
>>> of the
>>>>> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and
>>>>> confidential.
>>>>> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an
>>>>> authorized
>>>>> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
>>>>> that any
>>>>> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
>> you
>>>>> have
>>>>> received this communication in error, notify the sender
>>>>> immediately by
>>>>> return email and delete the message and any attachments from your
>>>>> system.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org
>>>>> [mailto:fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org]On
>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Dmitri Vietze
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:01 PM
>>>>> To: fa-worldmusic at folk.org
>>>>> Subject: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
>>>>> tokenism,and art
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> 
>>>>> So much to say and so little timeb&
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dmitri has encouraged me to post my comments to this list.  My
>>>>> response to
>>>>> him
>>>>> was that the usual suspects intimidate me.  My own paranoia, but
>>>>> simply
>>>>> put,
>>>>> my label would be layperson by comparison to you all who seem
>> much
>>>>> more
>>>>> knowledgeable in this arena. So, Ibm comfy w/remaining under the
>>>>> radar.
>>>>> Ibm guessing though, if you donbt stand up, you donbt stand a
>>>>> chance.
>>>>> b Genesis
>>>>> 
>>>>> Many years ago, while having a discussion with a colleague about
>>>>> the title
>>>>> of
>>>>> an under attended art exhibition, she pointed out that the chosen
>>>>> name was
>>>>> an
>>>>> obvious title for those intimate with the history of art;
>> however,
>>>>> the
>>>>> obscure
>>>>> title for the general populous might not motivate them to
>> visit w/
>>>>> out some
>>>>> sort of hook, or rather, context.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Butb&did you know the bicycle was invented then?  Wow, that gave
>>> this
>>>>> period
>>>>> some everyday relevance.  And, perhaps this new reference point
>>>>> would even
>>>>> arouse enough curiosity to inspire a visit.  A little
>>>>> oversimplified, but
>>>>> just
>>>>> trying to make a point.
>>>>> 
>>>>> While attending a programming meeting prior to the opening of an
>>>>> exhibition
>>>>> of
>>>>> the work of Barnett Newman, a now deceased artist that formerly
>>>>> created
>>>>> larger
>>>>> than life, more or less, mono-chromatic canvasses w/a stripe
>> or so
>>>>> down
>>>>> the
>>>>> middle, or positioned on some other location on the painting.
>> You
>>>>> know,
>>>>> one
>>>>> of those artists that elicit reactions such as, bMy
>> Kindergartner
>>>>> could
>>>>> do
>>>>> that!b orb& bI just donbt get it!b Curators and educators
>> were
>>>>> debating about what type of tours and gallery talks to present.
>>> Some
>>>>> historian suggested, bWouldnbt it be fun to just send people
>>>>> into the
>>>>> exhibition and then gather together after seeing the show for a
>>>>> discussion?b
>>>>> Maybe fun for them, even if modern art wasnbt their area of
>>>>> expertise,
>>>>> because they had the knowledge base to bhave funb w/reactions,
>>>>> understanding the history of art in general.  When one is
>>>>> intimidated,
>>>>> such
>>>>> as
>>>>> myself, Ibm embarrassed to explore my reactions b/c what if
>>> theybre
>>>>> wrong.
>>>>> Poor assumption on my part, Ibm aware, but as a stereotype,
>>>>> thatbs just
>>>>> the nature of the beast, Ibm afraid.  Coincidentally, during
>> that
>>>>> show, I
>>>>> took a musician into see it.  The curator happened to be standing
>>>>> in the
>>>>> middle of one of the main display galleries, where every work of
>>>>> art was
>>>>> enormous, brightly colored, and the gestalt was magnificent and
>>>>> powerful.
>>>>> The
>>>>> focus for me, as well as the musician, was on the room, the
>>>>> installation,
>>>>> not
>>>>> just the individual works of art. Following our emotional
>>>>> introduction,
>>>>> the
>>>>> curator joined us and waxed eloquently about all of it.  It
>> was an
>>>>> eye
>>>>> opening
>>>>> and exciting experience for all that gravitated towards her.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So, labels, hmmmm.  When convenient, they are great.  When
>>>>> problematic, we
>>>>> tend to reject them and bwish they would go away.b
>>>>> 
>>>>> I for one enjoy a love hate relationship with them.  When
>> hired to
>>>>> program,
>>>>> I
>>>>> didnbt have a clue as to what I was doing.  Oy, yet another
>>>>> uninformed
>>>>> producer! But, I had strong feelings about other conundrums, and
>>> they
>>>>> evolved,
>>>>> just as I did, in this baptism by fire sort of situation.  The
>>>>> first issue
>>>>> was
>>>>> what do I do on a bBlack Historyb night.  That made me cringe.
>>>>> There
>>>>> were
>>>>> a series of problems with this label.  First, I hate token,
>>> thematic
>>>>> evenings
>>>>> such as that, or Womenbs History night in March, or, you get the
>>>>> picture.
>>>>> They donbt bother me as much if throughout the remainder of the
>>>>> year, a
>>>>> broad spectrum of events is presented without an air of tokenism.
>>>>> Also, I
>>>>> was
>>>>> told that during my predecessorsb bBlack History Nightsb that
>>>>> Caucasians
>>>>> didnbt attend and neither did African Americans b/c the overall
>>>>> museum
>>>>> attendance reported a 1% diversity statistic. That made me angry
>>>>> enough to
>>>>> attempt to change that.  Long story short again, Black History
>>>>> night, my
>>>>> first
>>>>> one, drew the usual 1,000 visitors, rather than the previous
>>>>> scaled down
>>>>> 300.
>>>>> An African American friend and colleague offered, bDonbt be
>>>>> smug, let me
>>>>> see you do it again, and not just once a year.b
>>>>> 
>>>>> This led to questioning other types of programming.  The origins
>>>>> of the
>>>>> above
>>>>> mentioned, weekly series were to take a thematic approach. The
>>>>> themes were
>>>>> to
>>>>> highlight the museumbs exhibitions and permanent collection.  We
>>>>> all know
>>>>> there are an infinite number of themes in art; therefore, the
>>>>> programming
>>>>> had
>>>>> no boundaries.  Wouldnbt it be fun to opt for some general
>> theme,
>>>>> Hearts
>>>>> and
>>>>> Flowers, if you will?  What ethnic group fits there?  Can Abba
>>>>> satisfy
>>>>> that
>>>>> theme? Can the Carolina Chocolate Drops? You betcha.  But, that
>>>>> doesnbt
>>>>> mean
>>>>> you canbt turn around and have an American Roots night, or
>>> celebrate
>>>>> Malian
>>>>> culture on another.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I lost myself here with my own free associations, but perhaps, in
>>>>> conclusion,
>>>>> labels arenbt so much the issue, but what, when and how one uses
>>>>> them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Enjoy the music and the art...
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> FA-Worldmusic mailing list
>>>>> FA-Worldmusic at folk.org
>>>>> http://www.folkserv.net/mailman/listinfo/fa-worldmusic
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