[FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints, tokenism, and art

Thu Aug 16 15:10:08 ADT 2007

The Buena Vista brand has been a huge success, no question. and
others with no relation to it have capitalized on its coattails as
well, certainly. That's a good thing, even if it meant saturating the
market with inferior product in some cases. But it also did a
disservice to some worthy artists by them being pawned off as B-level
Buena Vistas rather than promoted for their own merits.

On Aug 16, 2007, at 11:01 AM, Imbizo at aol.com wrote:

> an outsized success like BVSC is unlikely to be repeated - not
> really my point - but its certainly been attempted by the label to
> use the BVSC Presents name to sell more and other Cuban records -
> which is my point.  and sell them with much success.   i cant vouch
> for World Circuit and Nonesuch's thinking but i'd hazard that they
> see plenty of value in the formula- they wouldn't have done it
> otherwise. I'd also hazard that they wouldnt presume to do the same
> numbers as BVSC but that even a fraction of BVSC numbers would
> suffice.  Further, I'd guess that many if not most consumers bought
> these other records because of the BVSC connection. and a whole
> chain of formulas played their part in this ancillary success -
> retail recognizing the viability of the BVSC brand, the label
> duplicating marketing, promotion & advertising strategies etc
>
>
> I'm not so much concerned about the labeling as the belief that
> something actually can repeat the success of a Buena Vista or
> whatever. Buena Vista was a unique project, successful for reasons
> distinct to itself (including timing) and trying to duplicate that
> seems to me doomed to failure. You can't simply put together a bunch
> of artists from wherever, label them the "Buena Vista Social Club of
> Mongolia" or whatever and expect it to have the same level of
> success. Just ask all those folks who were marketed as "the next
> Dylan"... for every Bruce Springsteen there are hundreds of Elliot
> Murphys.
>
>
>
> On Aug 16, 2007, at 10:31 AM, Imbizo at aol.com wrote:
>
> > "The problem is when the mentality for promoting projects takes a
> > "the next Buena Vista Social Club"
> > approach..."  er, I dont see where the problem is in this - I'm in
> > the business of selling artists and their music - if labeling
> > something 'the next X' works, i'll do it until it doesn't work.
> > Some will outgrow that label and forge their own identities, some
> > wont.  Market mechanics.   I find this refusal to engage in and /
> > or disdain for established marketing techniques in 'world music'
> > perplexing - its as if 'we' are too good for this kind of thinking.
> >
> > There are plenty of formulas going around...a record company
> > marketing plan, World Circuit trademarking the BVSC name, Six
> > Degrees' packaging, Concord and Starbucks, Starbucks racking,
> > virtually every press and promo campaign I engage requires NPR
> > attention for some if not all of its success, and certainly touring
> > is the sine qua non of success.  More than ever, in fact.  The
> > touring circuit, is after all, a formula too.
> >
> > We need more formulas, not less.
> >
> > Mel Puljic
> >
> > The successes, however they happen, are good news. Period. Whether
> > from PBS, whether from Paul Simon's large spotlight, whatever.
> And in
> > theory, there is enough carry-over from any such thing to sustain
> and
> > build some more interest. The problem is when the mentality for
> > promoting projects takes a "the next Buena Vista Social Club"
> > approach, since for the most part those kind of large successes are
> > not repeatable, but are the result of many factors converging,
> > including sometimes just simple right-thing/right-time fortune -- a
> > harmonic convergence or perfect wave kind of phenomenon.
> >
> > In other words, there is no formula that can be recreated. Each
> > project demands its own approach, or so it seems to this armchair
> > quarterback.
> >
> > -----------------------------------
> > Check out my column:
> > http://www.spinner.com/category/around-the-world/
> > -----------------------------------
> >
> > On Aug 16, 2007, at 9:01 AM, Todd Walker wrote:
> >
> > > pardon.
> > >
> > > you know how clearly I present myself....right?
> > >
> > > that's what I am asking.  I think there are different formulas for
> > > everyone,
> > > would love to know how it has worked for others.  It always starts
> > > with the
> > > solid team - agent, manager, publicist, label all working together
> > > cohesively.
> > >
> > > RyG was all about radio to start then TV then festivals, small
> > > clubs to
> > > large and so on.  What was REALLY unique about their whole rise to
> > > fame was
> > > this placement they got on you tube.  One of their songs sat on
> > > their home
> > > page for about 2 days and they got hundreds of thousands of
> > hits.  The
> > > surprising thing for this band was why did radio pick up on it so
> > > hard?
> > >
> > > What was the story on Gotan?  Vieux seems to be rocking right now.
> > > Where
> > > did Baobab go?  Bembeya Jazz?
> > >
> > > Lots of great music to chose from for all you presenters, the
> better
> > > question is how to keep the career moving forward.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Todd Walker
> > > International Music Network
> > > 278 Main Street - Gloucester, MA 01930
> > > 978.283.2883 // 978.283.2330 fax
> > > www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com>
> > >
> > > Check out www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com/>  for info on
> > > all our
> > > artists, tour updates, news, tech riders, image downloads and
> more.
> > >
> > > ********************************************
> > >
> > > This message and any attachments are intended only for the use of
> > the
> > > addressee and may contain information that is privileged and
> > > confidential.
> > > If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an
> > > authorized
> > > representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> > > that any
> > > dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you
> > > have
> > > received this communication in error, notify the sender
> > immediately by
> > > return email and delete the message and any attachments from your
> > > system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org
> > > [mailto:fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org]On
> > Behalf Of
> > > Dmitri Vietze
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:28 AM
> > > To: fa-worldmusic at folk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
> > > tokenism,and art
> > >
> > >
> > > Uhhh, Todd... you forgot to tell us the formula? So BVSC is due to
> > > PBS, and
> > > Ceu and Angelique thanks to Starbucks. What about R&G?
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Todd Walker" <todd at imnworld.com>
> > > To: "Dmitri Vietze" <music at rockpaperscissors.biz>; <fa-
> > > worldmusic at folk.org>
> > > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:00 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
> > > tokenism,and art
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Ah yes - just the sort of this we shoudl be getting into.
> > >>
> > >> First off, I like the term "world music" and much as I like the
> > terms
> > >> "Rock", "folk" "electronic" "metal" and the rest of it.  I will
> > >> refrain
> > >> from
> > >> citing the infinite specific examples, but really who cares?
> > >>
> > >> Also, do remember how uneducated we are as Americans - "world
> > music"
> > >> offers
> > >> a bit of clarity for most.
> > >>
> > >> I want to start hearing some thoughts like homeboy (or girl)
> below.
> > >>
> > >> How do we cross WORLD MUSIC into the main stream?  I have had
> a few
> > >> successes but really isolated and many can't seem to put a finger
> > >> on it.
> > >> Rodrigo y Gabriela is the best example, whom many of you may
> > know the
> > >> recently ran for the CAA border to become movie stars.
> > >> Regardless, you
> > >> have
> > >> a Mexican guitar duo who basically folded directly into a
> > >> mainstream plan.
> > >>
> > >> Why?
> > >>
> > >> Why did AAA radio get so crazy on it, why did comm. radio go
> nuts,
> > >> TV came
> > >> along and all of a sudden you have a MEXICAN guitar duo who will
> > >> probably
> > >> sell over 250K records on their first release.  INSANE!  I
> > personally
> > >> think
> > >> they are an incredible show, but more importantly this experience
> > >> reinforced
> > >> my faith that music from across the world can cross over into the
> > >> mainstream
> > >> and contend with commercial rock bands.
> > >>
> > >> CeU and Angelique are crushing it right now thanks to Starbucks.
> > >>
> > >> Buena Vista thanks to PBS.
> > >>
> > >> There are many more examples, but this is an essential focus for
> > >> us.  Of
> > >> course I want all you ethnomusicology nerds (myself included
> > without
> > >> degree)
> > >> to know about these artists, but above and beyond I want to
> > bring my
> > >> artists
> > >> from the corners of the earth into the living rooms of people
> > >> outside of
> > >> the
> > >> major markets.  Not only is there brilliant music being made, but
> > >> culturally
> > >> this education is imperative.
> > >>
> > >> What are your successes?
> > >>
> > >> The ideas that flow, the closer we get to a system when tours/
> > records
> > >> don't
> > >> happen once.  We can start building a foundation and structure to
> > >> make
> > >> some
> > >> noise in this country.
> > >>
> > >> violins (fade in)...cello....and now the woodwinds
> > >>
> > >> with respect.
> > >>
> > >> Todd Walker
> > >> International Music Network
> > >> 278 Main Street - Gloucester, MA 01930
> > >> 978.283.2883 // 978.283.2330 fax
> > >> www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com>
> > >>
> > >> Check out www.imnworld.com <http://www.imnworld.com/>  for
> info on
> > >> all our
> > >> artists, tour updates, news, tech riders, image downloads and
> more.
> > >>
> > >> ********************************************
> > >>
> > >> This message and any attachments are intended only for the use
> > of the
> > >> addressee and may contain information that is privileged and
> > >> confidential.
> > >> If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient or an
> > >> authorized
> > >> representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> > >> that any
> > >> dissemination of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
> you
> > >> have
> > >> received this communication in error, notify the sender
> > >> immediately by
> > >> return email and delete the message and any attachments from your
> > >> system.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org
> > >> [mailto:fa-worldmusic-bounces+todd=imnworld.com at folk.org]On
> > Behalf Of
> > >> Dmitri Vietze
> > >> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 10:01 PM
> > >> To: fa-worldmusic at folk.org
> > >> Subject: [FA Worldmusic] a post from anonymous on entrypoints,
> > >> tokenism,and art
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>
> > >> So much to say and so little timeb&
> > >>
> > >> Dmitri has encouraged me to post my comments to this list.  My
> > >> response to
> > >> him
> > >> was that the usual suspects intimidate me.  My own paranoia, but
> > >> simply
> > >> put,
> > >> my label would be layperson by comparison to you all who seem
> much
> > >> more
> > >> knowledgeable in this arena. So, Ibm comfy w/remaining under the
> > >> radar.
> > >> Ibm guessing though, if you donbt stand up, you donbt stand a
> > >> chance.
> > >> b Genesis
> > >>
> > >> Many years ago, while having a discussion with a colleague about
> > >> the title
> > >> of
> > >> an under attended art exhibition, she pointed out that the chosen
> > >> name was
> > >> an
> > >> obvious title for those intimate with the history of art;
> however,
> > >> the
> > >> obscure
> > >> title for the general populous might not motivate them to
> visit w/
> > >> out some
> > >> sort of hook, or rather, context.
> > >>
> > >> Butb&did you know the bicycle was invented then?  Wow, that gave
> > this
> > >> period
> > >> some everyday relevance.  And, perhaps this new reference point
> > >> would even
> > >> arouse enough curiosity to inspire a visit.  A little
> > >> oversimplified, but
> > >> just
> > >> trying to make a point.
> > >>
> > >> While attending a programming meeting prior to the opening of an
> > >> exhibition
> > >> of
> > >> the work of Barnett Newman, a now deceased artist that formerly
> > >> created
> > >> larger
> > >> than life, more or less, mono-chromatic canvasses w/a stripe
> or so
> > >> down
> > >> the
> > >> middle, or positioned on some other location on the painting.
> You
> > >> know,
> > >> one
> > >> of those artists that elicit reactions such as, bMy
> Kindergartner
> > >> could
> > >> do
> > >> that!b orb& bI just donbt get it!b Curators and educators
> were
> > >> debating about what type of tours and gallery talks to present.
> > Some
> > >> historian suggested, bWouldnbt it be fun to just send people
> > >> into the
> > >> exhibition and then gather together after seeing the show for a
> > >> discussion?b
> > >> Maybe fun for them, even if modern art wasnbt their area of
> > >> expertise,
> > >> because they had the knowledge base to bhave funb w/reactions,
> > >> understanding the history of art in general.  When one is
> > >> intimidated,
> > >> such
> > >> as
> > >> myself, Ibm embarrassed to explore my reactions b/c what if
> > theybre
> > >> wrong.
> > >> Poor assumption on my part, Ibm aware, but as a stereotype,
> > >> thatbs just
> > >> the nature of the beast, Ibm afraid.  Coincidentally, during
> that
> > >> show, I
> > >> took a musician into see it.  The curator happened to be standing
> > >> in the
> > >> middle of one of the main display galleries, where every work of
> > >> art was
> > >> enormous, brightly colored, and the gestalt was magnificent and
> > >> powerful.
> > >> The
> > >> focus for me, as well as the musician, was on the room, the
> > >> installation,
> > >> not
> > >> just the individual works of art. Following our emotional
> > >> introduction,
> > >> the
> > >> curator joined us and waxed eloquently about all of it.  It
> was an
> > >> eye
> > >> opening
> > >> and exciting experience for all that gravitated towards her.
> > >>
> > >> So, labels, hmmmm.  When convenient, they are great.  When
> > >> problematic, we
> > >> tend to reject them and bwish they would go away.b
> > >>
> > >> I for one enjoy a love hate relationship with them.  When
> hired to
> > >> program,
> > >> I
> > >> didnbt have a clue as to what I was doing.  Oy, yet another
> > >> uninformed
> > >> producer! But, I had strong feelings about other conundrums, and
> > they
> > >> evolved,
> > >> just as I did, in this baptism by fire sort of situation.  The
> > >> first issue
> > >> was
> > >> what do I do on a bBlack Historyb night.  That made me cringe.
> > >> There
> > >> were
> > >> a series of problems with this label.  First, I hate token,
> > thematic
> > >> evenings
> > >> such as that, or Womenbs History night in March, or, you get the
> > >> picture.
> > >> They donbt bother me as much if throughout the remainder of the
> > >> year, a
> > >> broad spectrum of events is presented without an air of tokenism.
> > >> Also, I
> > >> was
> > >> told that during my predecessorsb bBlack History Nightsb that
> > >> Caucasians
> > >> didnbt attend and neither did African Americans b/c the overall
> > >> museum
> > >> attendance reported a 1% diversity statistic. That made me angry
> > >> enough to
> > >> attempt to change that.  Long story short again, Black History
> > >> night, my
> > >> first
> > >> one, drew the usual 1,000 visitors, rather than the previous
> > >> scaled down
> > >> 300.
> > >> An African American friend and colleague offered, bDonbt be
> > >> smug, let me
> > >> see you do it again, and not just once a year.b
> > >>
> > >> This led to questioning other types of programming.  The origins
> > >> of the
> > >> above
> > >> mentioned, weekly series were to take a thematic approach. The
> > >> themes were
> > >> to
> > >> highlight the museumbs exhibitions and permanent collection.  We
> > >> all know
> > >> there are an infinite number of themes in art; therefore, the
> > >> programming
> > >> had
> > >> no boundaries.  Wouldnbt it be fun to opt for some general
> theme,
> > >> Hearts
> > >> and
> > >> Flowers, if you will?  What ethnic group fits there?  Can Abba
> > >> satisfy
> > >> that
> > >> theme? Can the Carolina Chocolate Drops? You betcha.  But, that
> > >> doesnbt
> > >> mean
> > >> you canbt turn around and have an American Roots night, or
> > celebrate
> > >> Malian
> > >> culture on another.
> > >>
> > >> I lost myself here with my own free associations, but perhaps, in
> > >> conclusion,
> > >> labels arenbt so much the issue, but what, when and how one uses
> > >> them.
> > >>
> > >> Enjoy the music and the art...
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> FA-Worldmusic mailing list
> > >> FA-Worldmusic at folk.org
> > >> http://www.folkserv.net/mailman/listinfo/fa-worldmusic
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