[FA Worldmusic] 17 Hippies controversy

[Dmitri Vietze]

If anyone wants to hear 17 earlier versions of Apache and track the numerous 
bands that played it, go here:

http://soul-sides.com/2005/04/all-roads-lead-to-apache.html

As for whether it was "world music" and whether Afrika Bambaataa (who, by 
the way, was mixing in Latin and African music into his DJed parties in, 
what, the late 70s) was involved, I borrow this excerpt from Michaelangelo 
Matos' article at the same link above:

<<In other words, a record written by a white Englishman imitating Native 
Americans as portrayed by white Americans and made famous by a Dane with a 
vaguely Hawaiian sound, arranged by a Canadian, became the biggest record in 
black New York. Juggling multiple copies of the track's percussion break 
until they became a hypnotic rhythmic mantra, over which his accompanying 
MCs would rhyme, Kool Herc and the pioneering hip-hop DJs who followed 
him-the most storied being __Afrika Bambaataa__ and Grandmaster Flash-turned 
the Incredible Bongo Band's "Apache" into an underground hit in the manner 
of other early-'70s records like Manu Dibango's "Soul Makossa" or TSOP's 
"Love Is the Message"-a DJ specialty, played and treasured by those in the 
know. And like those songs, "Apache" eventually become a mass-cult hit. It 
just wouldn't do it as itself.

The Sugarhill Gang were the first group to utilize "Apache" as hip-hop 
source material, releasing their own "Apache" in 1981, where the 
interpolated break was replayed by the Sugarhill Records house band and the 
Chops horn section. (They too emphasized the cod-Native American leanings of 
the original: "Tonto, jump on it . . . Geronimo, jump on it.") But it wasn't 
until two years later that the Bongo Band's "Apache" made its way onto wax 
as a sample source, getting cut up on West Street Mob's "Break 
Dance-Electric Boogie." The following year, it was interpolated into Double 
Dee and Steinski's "The Payoff Mix," its bongo-led opening providing the 
starkest moment on a jam-packed record, and both subsequent "Lesson Mix"es 
by the cut-and-paste duo also featured it.>>

Much respect,

===> Dmitri!
music at rockpaperscissors.biz

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Bragin" <bbragin at publictheater.org>
To: "Dmitri Vietze" <music at rockpaperscissors.biz>; <fa-worldmusic at folk.org>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 2:09 PM
Subject: RE: [FA Worldmusic] 17 Hippies controversy


Apache is absolutely a hip-hop classic, even if it has earlier sources,
just as much as I Will Always Love you is a defining soul ballad
classic, even if Dolly Parton wrote it.

Where you are wrong is that it was Sugarhill gang, not Afrika Bambaata.
And you can see a hugely offensive video here (though I guess the fake
Native American characatures and bongos help it to qualify as world
Music)"Tonto, jump opon it. Kimopsabi, jump on it..."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TJL8jDvukew

Sugar Hill gang were really drawing from the Incredible Bongo Band's
version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kTvkoakkMX4


But, there are lots of other great versions:

The Shadows; http://youtube.com/watch?v=tFwVSYQ3GUQ
The Ventures: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tFwVSYQ3GUQ
Danish Disco version: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eTKL8MNH95Q (I think
the outfits rival Sugar Hill Gang's)

And a Prodigy video mash-up of the same:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-COGNOY3Nic

Yes, it's a rainy Friday...



-----Original Message-----
From: fa-worldmusic-bounces+bbragin=publictheater.org at folk.org
[mailto:fa-worldmusic-bounces+bbragin=publictheater.org at folk.org] On
Behalf Of Dmitri Vietze
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 1:52 PM
To: fa-worldmusic at folk.org
Subject: [FA Worldmusic] 17 Hippies controversy

OK, so I have now been slapped on the wrist twice for calling Apache a
"hip
hop classic." See below. Another "elder" (ha, haaaa! no harm meant) of
our
community took the time from their busy schedule to call me and tell me
the
song had earlier origins in some old cowboy flick or something. (Though
that
person got credit for catching the Afrika Bambata reference, in spite of
me
being wrong, wrong wrong.) So in addition to booking 17 Hippies this
September, you could schedule a debate and discussion on the multiple
histories of the song "Apache."

("Kimosobi, jump on it!, jump on it, jump on it!)

Much respect,

===> Dmitri!
music at rockpaperscissors.biz

----- Original Message ----- 
> At 10:02 AM 8/10/2007, you wrote:
>>Apache (yes, that's right, folks! The hip hop classic done
acoustically
>>and in
>>a Turkish 9/8 rhythm!)
>
> Oh, dude, you are S0-0-0-0 showing your youth. <g>
>
> "Apache" was a 1960s surf-guitar hit for The Challengers, written by
Jerry
> Lawler, ... a little early for hip-hop. <g>
>
> I'll give you the 9/8 rhythm, though.
_______________________________________________
FA-Worldmusic mailing list
FA-Worldmusic at folk.org
http://www.folkserv.net/mailman/listinfo/fa-worldmusic